James Kloetzke (Jimmy Kennedy) is a referee. At the age of 16, he broke into wresting in Wisconsin. He’s not a big superstar, a technical god, or an up and coming wrestler. Just a simple referee...or so one may think. Although it may seem like a dull interview, my two hours with Jimmy were spent well. A great interview with a ton of cool stories and great insight, this was more than an average, lame read you might get from a big WWF star. A simple referee sometimes has more to say.

Mr Hill: How long have you been reffing?

James: I started refereeing in August of 1998, so August of this year will be 3 years.

Mr Hill: Who trained you?

James: I was trained by Eric Hammers. He is co-trainer with Mike Mercury at the ACW Dojo of Pain in Green Bay. This was before ACW was formed, so he just trained me before shows we were on. It was great because he taught me the essentials of refereeing: Ring placement, theory, psychology, bumping, false tags, etc. I also watched a lot of Tommy Young tapes and stuff (the ref from the NWA). Watching tapes helps alot.

Mr Hill: In your time with the business, who have you worked for?

James: I've refereed for 18 promotions through out the Midwest and Tennessee. Some promotions that come to mind include Bert Prentice's NWA-Worldwide, ACW of WI, GLCW and NAWF of WI, Mid American Wrestling (WI's hardcore promotion) and many others.

Mr Hill: What do you feel you’ve accomplished in that time?

James: I guess a big accomplishment is being requested by a ton of workers in the midwest to referee their matches. I guess its because I'm not one to blow finishes or mess up spots I'm involved in.

Mr Hill: Here in SoCal, one thing a lot of people learn about the indy scene is how political it gets. What has your experience been with politics in indy wrestling?

James: well, there have been some minor politics I have run across... just basic misunderstandings that involved me personally. I've seen quite a lot of stuff go down though... some fights, some verbal wars, some firings, some stiffing, I've seen it all in my short time in the business.

James: I've seen one worker shoot DDT another on the floor, I've seen a worker smash a guy's head into a guard rail, I've seen simple shouting matches once in a while.. Most of these were the result of a long dispute that reached its pinnacle. Nothing too major to note though....

Mr Hill: ever encounter any shady promoters?

James: Yes.... there are so many in this business, its not even funny A lot of guys are real big on pay days and this and that. I guess I don't try and stress too much about cash. I mean, I'm not out to lose TOO much money, but I'm not in it to make money either. Its’ all about experience and exposure. I mean, I'm not gonna go anywhere in this business without getting experience and exposure, and asking for a ton of cash isn't going to get booked. If I don’t get booked, I don’t get experience.

Mr Hill: What about when a promoter promises you money, then cant deliver?

James: It depends on the circumstances. If there is a promised guarantee and then he doesn't come up with it, that's really shitty. If he draws 3 people, I can have sympathy and not be a dick and ask for it. However, a promise is a promise, if you break it, its bad business. In most cases when someone stiffs me, I just wont work for them again, I don't want to whore myself out. Besides, if one promoter gives me $50, and another doesn't give me anything, and I keep working for the free promoter, what does that say about the $50 promoter? Why should he pay me $50 when he could get me for free?? Its a slap in the face to him Not to mention the guys that don't pay usually have shit workers too, so it usually goes hand in hand.

Mr Hill: What do you think of shows with backyard wrestlers or untrained guys?

James: My biggest pet peeve are the guys that promote shows with untrained workers. It makes me sick to my stomach. Total slap in the face. Its a shame that these guys can even call themselves pro wrestlers when they are basically backyarders with a ring.

Mr Hill: True.

James: I've seen NWO rip offs, (not as original as the BWO) DX rip offs, Vince McMahon Corporation rip offs... you name it, I've seen it. Its so sad.

Mr Hill: You worked for Bert Prentice’s NWA in Nashville, what was that like?

James: I worked for Bert Prentice's NWA-Worldwide in Tennessee quite a few times. It was a great experience. Bert is a great promoter and an all around great man. I respect him very much and feel honored to have had the opportunity to work for him.

Mr Hill: What was it like working in Tennessee?

James: There are NO smart marks down there. Each and every person in the audience treats wrestling as if it were a realistic competition. The fans go wild when the heel goes over and charge the ring when their favorite babyface gets hurt or screwed over. Its a wonderful learning experience as well. Simple stuff gets the biggest reaction. That place is proof positive that less is more in the wrestling business. Theory and Psychology oozes out of every match. Its a wrestling heaven on earth.

Mr Hill: Yea, it used to come on TV here

James: yes, I get Bert's TV up by me as well. James: I got to see myself referee from down there on my own TV, that was a really neat experience.

Mr Hill: So you worked with the Badstreet Boys (the former indy group that included Shane Helms, Shannon Moore, Christian York and Joey Matthews)?

James: Yes actually. I worked with Christian York and Joey Matthews just weeks before WWF signed them to a deal. They are two of the nicest guys in the biz today and I hope they go far. They are very genuine and are very honest with you and they want everyone to improve. York and Matthews were in our shoes at one time, they know what its like paying your dues and climbing the ladder in this biz. I wish them the best.

Mr Hill: What was it like being in a place with so much history?

James: Honestly, its hard not to get a little tingly feeling inside, knowing the history and legends that have worked in that building, The Mecca, the Nashville Fairgrounds, etc. You see, even though they are retired or out of the business, they still stop by and watch the wrestling. That's the great part about that area. Wrestling is sacred down there, not a freak show or a flash in the dark like it can be in some other areas. Its a way of life and taken seriously by all involved.

Mr Hill: Are you part of any kliq?

James: Not really. I pride myself on saying I am friends with EVERYONE in this business. There are a few exceptions, but those are the people that disrespect me or treat me like shit. I don't think I owe them anything for that sort of treatment. I hang out with guys from one promotion on one night of the week, some on the next, go out to eat with guys on some other show after it, etc., etc. I’ll tell you this though: I really have very few "non wrestling" friends.

Mr Hill: Being on the road so much, does having friends in the biz become a necessity?

James: Well, sort of. I mean, I think I couldn't last for 4 plus hour car rides to shows with people I don't care for too much . I've done it before though. Believe me, that's where you truly realize if you love this business enough or not. Being in a car with someone you cant stand is one of the biggest forms of paying dues I've ever had to partake in.

Mr Hill: What are your goals in this biz?

James: I think I have the same goals of everyone in this business, and that is to some day make a living at what I love doing, and being in this business and refereeing.

Mr Hill: Have you heard anything about the indy scene here in SoCal?

James: Well, I've heard about the SoCal area from 1wrestling and stuff. I've seen XPW, Rev Pro and APW. It seems like a hot bed of wrestling. A lot of great talent come out of the promotions. I hear alot of great things about all of the promotions out there, even though I don't know a whole lot about many of them. I think the big 2 will be looking at the So Cal region for up and coming stars.

Mr Hill: Have u ever worked with any of the indy stars who have worked here (ie Chris Daniels)?

James: I've worked on shows with Adam Pearce.

Mr Hill: What is Adam Pearce like? He works his first show in SoCal this weekend (At this time, MPW’s first show had not happened yet.)

James: I met Adam on a show in Green Bay, WI. We talk quite a bit. He is very outspoken and very Chicago-land in his personality. All around nice guy. Some people say he has a hot head, but he takes this business very seriously and doesn't like to fuck up or have others fuck up. All he is doing is trying to help out and teach others.

Mr Hill: What about as a wrestler?

James: Adam is probably one of the most talented workers I have ever seen in the indies. He can do it all, brawl, fly, technical, you name it, he is great at it.

Mr Hill: Anyone else?

James: Chris Daniels obviously. He’s a HELL of a worker. I’m glad he got signed somewhere. Donavan Morgan worked out here recently. He is an APW guy if I remember correctly.

Mr Hill: APW and UPW too.

James: They got alot of pub on Beyond the Mat, that's great for APW and the indies in general. Publicity is always welcomed.

Mr Hill: You mentioned the XPW promotion. What do you think of them?

James: I guess they have a very different style then most CA promotions. I think they’re off to a good start though. They have national releases on their tapes, syndicated TV, and tons of names. The thing is I'm not sure about hardcore wrestling anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching it, and I love reffing it but its a hard thing to top. Once you've done the 1500 thumbtack 200 light tube barbed wire fish net bag of glass death match enough times, it loses its effectiveness.

Mr Hill: Do you worry about guys getting injured?

James: I think that hardcore wrestlers know exactly what they are doing in the ring, and most injuries are very minor in my experience with hardcore wrestling.

Mr Hill: what was the most brutal match u ever reffed?

James: I've reffed matches with light tubes, barbed wire, barbed wire baseball bats, thumbtacks, glass, barbed wire boards, light tubes lit up, some crazy shit man. Very bloody, very painful looking. But the best in the biz were doing it, Ian Rotten, Hard Core Craig, Cpl Robinson, 2 Tuff Tony, Harley Lewis, Axl Future, to name a few.. this was for Carmine Despirito's Mid American Wrestling.

Mr Hill: what was Ian Rotten like?

James: Ian is a very nice guy. He knows what he is doing in the ring. He knows hardcore theory. At first, I didn't know there was such a thing, but he perfected it.

Mr Hill: He’s also insane!

James: My first show for MAW I got splash mountain power bombed by Ian Rotten. I had never taken a move like that before, so I was scared shitless man. Let me tell you, see the ceiling, then watching it fly away from you as your body hits the mat is quite a weird feeling for a referee. I was ok though. Ian took care of me.

Mr Hill: What other mad men have you worked with?

James: Mad Men? How about Mad Man Pondo? Funny guy. Man, the guy could get tons of rats. You would never expect it, but he got tons! He doesn't get 500 pound nasty rats either. He gets the 20 year old blonde hot ones.

Mr Hill: Pondo???

James: He’s got tons of charisma, and that’s what these chicks love. Remember that, all you funny fat guys out there.

Mr Hill: Sounds like a trip. James: I was working a show with him in Milwaukee and the next night we were in Escanaba, MI. I asked Pondo if he wanted to car pool. He told me he didn't want to. We roll into the building about 10 minutes after he does, and the first thing he says is, "Jimmy, I didn't know you were on the show. We should have car pooled." I guess those stop sign shots really do effect you!

Mr Hill: Ha

James: Another fun Pondo story: He got pulled over for speeding or a headlight out or something once. He had just finished a big blood bath with Ian that night and had packed his gear and had something hanging out of his trunk. So the officer asked him to put it back in or something. Pondo pops the trunk and puts the shirt or whatever back in fully when the officer stops him from shutting the trunk. The cop goes, "what's this?" and points to his stack of road signs. Its illegal to have road signs, its stealing state property I guess. He goes, "well officer, I am a pro wrestler and fans give it to me, its my weapon that I use in the ring." The officer is like, "well okay, I guess but what about this," and picks up the barbed wire baseball bat. Like I said before, it had just been after a big Ian Rotten flesh peeling blood bath, so needless to say, it looked pretty fresh. Pondo says, "Well officer, you see, I like to hunt, and well, I like to give the animals a chance..."

Mr Hill: hahaha

James: Mr. Pondo got a $500 fine out of that one...

Mr Hill: You said Pondo is a rat machine. What do you think of ring rats? Is it hard to maintain a relationship on the road?

James: My first show I got a rat. How's that to start off your career?

Mr Hill: Where do I sign up?

James: I had a girlfriend after I was in the biz a year or so. Let me tell you, its impossible to do. When you are in the biz, you are married to it. You spend all your time on the weekends doing it, from traveling, to doing shows, to sleeping, eating, etc.

Mr Hill: What do you think of them as an entity?

James: There are 2 interpretations for ring rats: Some guys see a girl at a show, and go, "look at the rat." I disagree, she's just a chick at a wrestling show. Others are just out to fuck as many workers as possible and they are the most annoying chicks I've ever met. Unless they are hot, like Missy Hyatt, or not annoying, I am totally against them and they should be all sent to Wyoming where it sucks already. However, they did pick the right group of guys to fuck, even if they don’t dig refs. You’d think the authority would be appealing, lol.

Mr Hill: You said you were married to the business. Is it a happy marriage?

James: Yes, very happy. I love wrestling.. I'd fuck it if it were human.

Mr Hill: You've been reffing for almost 3 years and have already gained a lifetime of experience. I have friends who are reffing now, all around the same age you were when you started. What would you say to them?

James: I would say, if you get frustrated, stick with it if you love it Some people consider it a hobby, others want to go far. Whatever your motive may be, just stick to it and get better. We are doing something we enjoy.

Mr Hill: James, I can’t thank you enough. On behalf of myself and Steve, thank you and make sure to check the site out.

James is looking for work in California as a referee. His email address is jamesk123@hotmail.com. Email him with any questions you have. He is also willing to send a tape upon request.